This interview with Netanyahu's political opponent makes fairly clear that it is not the conduct of the Gaza war that makes Netanyahu unpopular but everything else. As well, I don't believe that Netanyahu is conducting the war with unilateral decision making authority.
>>I regard Netanyahu’s conduct of the war to be unhinged — past the point of a proportionate response, neither succeeding in recovering the hostages nor in eliminating Hamas’ military leadership while losing the sympathy of the entire international community, the United States included<<
It is very helpful to me to read these words. They are absolutely true. This is not a matter of being pro-Palestine or being anti-Israel. What is happening in Gaza is anti-both.
You propose two perspectives:
1) What is happening on the ground in Gaza.
2) The international reaction.
I suggest a third point of view.
3) What are we going to do about it?
Some hard truths.
The Palestinians cannot stay within the borders of "Greater Israel". If they stay, Israel will destroy them, and doom itself in the process. The Palestinians will never capitulate to permanent occupation. Israel will never grant them rights.
So the Palestinians must go somewhere else. When the remaining Jews left Europe, they didn't see this as ethnic cleansing or banishment. Creating a homeland was what they chose to do. We need to emulate that process for the Palestinians without the oppression. Here is my idea in a very few words.
A possible solution.
Not that far from Gaza is a place called the Halaib Triangle. It has an area equivalent to Israel. Egypt claims it, Sudan claims it, and the residents would rather be their own country.
The world should make a deal with the Hala'ibitians. There are only a few thousand of them.
Deal: Accept the Palestinians as equal citizens and you can have your own country. Plus we will pay $1 million to every Hala'ibitian. We (the world).will persuade Sudan and Egypt to let this happen. We will invest billions of dollars to make this new country viable. Every citizen of the Halaib Triangle will have the rights to the natural gas off the coast of Gaza.
This vision is possible, and Israel will embrace it.
[I posted this on a Palestinian Support Group, and it was immediately deleted and I was given a warning to stop advocating ethnic cleansing. I have left the group, and I will stop thinking and posting about Palestine.
A plague on both their houses.]
Sam Kahn (who is probably a Jew, see below) wrote a very sensible review of the Israel/Gaza conflict.
“I regard Netanyahu’s conduct of the war to be unhinged — past the point of a proportionate response, neither succeeding in recovering the hostages nor in eliminating Hamas’ military leadership while losing the sympathy of the entire international community, the United States included”
It is very helpful to me to read these words. They are absolutely true, and stand out from the morass of verbiage that we see about Gaza and Israel.
The problem is not to pick a side between Palestine and Israel. Our momentous task is to end “the most intractable conflict in the world” which is destroying both peoples.
Mr. Kahn proposes two perspectives:
1) What is happening on the ground in Gaza, and
2) The international reaction.
I suggest a third point of view.
3) What are we going to do about it?
I note that Mr. Khan sketches out a vague return to the status quo ante with the implied hope that this time the Palestinians and the Israelis will get along better than before October 7 and before Bibi shredded 35,000+ Palestinians. Fat chance!
Some hard truths.
The Palestinians cannot stay within the borders of "Greater Israel". If they stay, Israel will destroy them, and doom itself in the process. The Palestinians will never capitulate to permanent occupation. Israel will never grant them equal rights. If they stay, there will be perpetual conflict which endangers the Middle East and arguably the entire world.
So the Palestinians must go somewhere else. When the surviving Jews left Europe, they didn't see this as ethnic cleansing or banishment. Creating a homeland was what they yearned to do. We need to assist the Palestinians in emulating that process, but, this time, with the agreement of the existing residents. Here is my idea in a very few words.
A possible solution.
Not that far from Gaza is a place called the Halaib Triangle. It has an area equivalent to Israel. Egypt claims it, Sudan claims it, and the actual residents would rather be their own country.
The world should make a deal with the Hala'ibitians. There are only a few thousand of them.
Deal: Accept the Palestinians as equal citizens and you can have your own country. Plus we (the world) will pay $1 million to every Hala'ibitian, every man, woman, and child. We will persuade Sudan and Egypt to let this happen. We will invest billions of dollars to make this new country viable. Every citizen of Halaib-Palestine (Hala'ibitians and Palestinians) will have equal rights to revenue from the natural gas off the coast of Gaza as long as it lasts.
This vision is possible, and Israel would embrace it.
Not because it told me anything new about the situation itself, although I did appreciate Dowell bringing in Greek myths as a lens with which to view. But I noticed the reaction I had to each of their (reasonable, evidenced, explained) views, which helped me see where I'd been making assumptions or failing to make connections.
My overall impression was of a man too eager to analyse a post 10/7 world using a pre 10/7 context, seeing lots of truth from different angles, not least the magnitude of suffering, but missing a cohesive picture. And of a (geo)politically savvy woman whose model of the situation rings with explanatory power, but is so frustrated with the wrongness of the loud American youth that she reflexively disagrees with them and so doesn't acknowledge the fullness of the tragedy or apply the full measure of scrutiny to IDF bombings.
I would urge you to reframe your position that it's a loss of some kind for Israel to recognise the legitimacy of Hamas.
Consider the militant response by the IRA in northern Ireland, and in the formation of the Irish free state. I believe strongly that if you dig past Israeli propaganda and consider the apartheid life of the Palestinians, that you will recognise that Israel has long since spent it's rights for self defense and has been using the illusion of that as an excuse to cleanse a population they regard as animals.
Your defense of "might is right" mentality is wrong, and while I believe your intentions here are good, and you clearly have empathy for civilians, your stance is misguided by the propaganda of the loudest party in the conflict, and their heinous American benefactors
My point here is mainly that peace is never given a chance, and in fact is often devoutly rejected by the oppressors. For me that invalidates the argument that that oppressor is making.
I find your line of reasoning valid, given we're outsiders watching in on this conflict and feeling helpless, it's natural to want to dissect the claims and read the fine print of both sides claims.
But don't you feel a shred of shame that you're dissecting the term genocide, when international law decries even attempting genocide, and it's purpose is to prevent the completion of that crime, because it's completion means the ending of the people's, and it's intent is just as horrific. The Israelis are calling for genocide, that much has been evidenced time and time again as they murder white-flag bearing civilians, injured and limping from their leveled homes.
Overall I appreciate you considering this issue, and I'm a new subscriber coming here to check out your writing after seeing you featured. But if this is the depth of interrogation that intelligent people are taking to invading forces and the propaganda they spew, then it's a sorry state for the world.
While reading ICJ reports and interrogating definitions of crimes, you could have educated yourself on the history of the Jewish state, and the nearly 70 oppressive years that the Palestinians have been dehumanised and stepped on by Israeli forces. Their homes burned and demolished, their mothers and fathers killed. Half of Gaza was under 18 at the time of October 7th. Why was that?
Entrance and exit of Gaza has been heavily controlled for years, why was that?
Palestinians had an international airport not too long ago.. what happened to that?
It seems you asked questions to placate your mind a bit. Refusing to accept that such oppressive evil still exists. After all, we've created three UN, we stopped a big genocide before and said never again. And I agree, this reality is maddening. Truly mind breaking at times. I can't think for the sorrow that overwhelms me, and even more when the images from the unsung massacres reaches me too, in Sudan, Yemen, Congo, ...
But the true insanity is believing the oppressors, and justifying their narrative that the situation is very complicated, and couldn't be easily solved.
Did you know Hamas has offered many ceasefire agreements rejected by Israel? Have you really considered the influence of the US military providing high powered drones, armour, ammunition to the Israelis to defend against rocks thrown by Palestinians peasant children, only for those to be used to remorselessly murder them in the street?
Please consider what ilk you could be putting into the world when you join the chorus of hand-wringing onlookers claiming that the left is too radical, or they risk "supporting Hamas". Hamas are children, raised in misery and oppression. Don't forget that.
I hope you see my point, I'm writing from my phone, and free-flowing, so I hope it's coherent.
I've also been feeling this tension, in many of the same ways
This interview with Netanyahu's political opponent makes fairly clear that it is not the conduct of the Gaza war that makes Netanyahu unpopular but everything else. As well, I don't believe that Netanyahu is conducting the war with unilateral decision making authority.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/27/magazine/yair-lapid-interview.html
That interview was eye-opening and convincing to me that the average Israeli supports the attack on Gaza.
>>I regard Netanyahu’s conduct of the war to be unhinged — past the point of a proportionate response, neither succeeding in recovering the hostages nor in eliminating Hamas’ military leadership while losing the sympathy of the entire international community, the United States included<<
It is very helpful to me to read these words. They are absolutely true. This is not a matter of being pro-Palestine or being anti-Israel. What is happening in Gaza is anti-both.
You propose two perspectives:
1) What is happening on the ground in Gaza.
2) The international reaction.
I suggest a third point of view.
3) What are we going to do about it?
Some hard truths.
The Palestinians cannot stay within the borders of "Greater Israel". If they stay, Israel will destroy them, and doom itself in the process. The Palestinians will never capitulate to permanent occupation. Israel will never grant them rights.
So the Palestinians must go somewhere else. When the remaining Jews left Europe, they didn't see this as ethnic cleansing or banishment. Creating a homeland was what they chose to do. We need to emulate that process for the Palestinians without the oppression. Here is my idea in a very few words.
A possible solution.
Not that far from Gaza is a place called the Halaib Triangle. It has an area equivalent to Israel. Egypt claims it, Sudan claims it, and the residents would rather be their own country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halaib_Triangle
https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Hala%27ib_Triangle
The world should make a deal with the Hala'ibitians. There are only a few thousand of them.
Deal: Accept the Palestinians as equal citizens and you can have your own country. Plus we will pay $1 million to every Hala'ibitian. We (the world).will persuade Sudan and Egypt to let this happen. We will invest billions of dollars to make this new country viable. Every citizen of the Halaib Triangle will have the rights to the natural gas off the coast of Gaza.
This vision is possible, and Israel will embrace it.
sane piece...
>>I recently had it said to me that “Zionism is the biggest threat in the world,” which is on the face of it a baffling claim.<<
Try this:
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the conflict most likely to lead to a nuclear war.
[I posted this on a Palestinian Support Group, and it was immediately deleted and I was given a warning to stop advocating ethnic cleansing. I have left the group, and I will stop thinking and posting about Palestine.
A plague on both their houses.]
Sam Kahn (who is probably a Jew, see below) wrote a very sensible review of the Israel/Gaza conflict.
Is It Possible to Stay Sane on Israel/Gaza?
https://open.substack.com/pub/samkahn/p/is-it-possible-to-stay-sane-on-israelgaza
In particular he said this.
“I regard Netanyahu’s conduct of the war to be unhinged — past the point of a proportionate response, neither succeeding in recovering the hostages nor in eliminating Hamas’ military leadership while losing the sympathy of the entire international community, the United States included”
It is very helpful to me to read these words. They are absolutely true, and stand out from the morass of verbiage that we see about Gaza and Israel.
The problem is not to pick a side between Palestine and Israel. Our momentous task is to end “the most intractable conflict in the world” which is destroying both peoples.
Mr. Kahn proposes two perspectives:
1) What is happening on the ground in Gaza, and
2) The international reaction.
I suggest a third point of view.
3) What are we going to do about it?
I note that Mr. Khan sketches out a vague return to the status quo ante with the implied hope that this time the Palestinians and the Israelis will get along better than before October 7 and before Bibi shredded 35,000+ Palestinians. Fat chance!
Some hard truths.
The Palestinians cannot stay within the borders of "Greater Israel". If they stay, Israel will destroy them, and doom itself in the process. The Palestinians will never capitulate to permanent occupation. Israel will never grant them equal rights. If they stay, there will be perpetual conflict which endangers the Middle East and arguably the entire world.
So the Palestinians must go somewhere else. When the surviving Jews left Europe, they didn't see this as ethnic cleansing or banishment. Creating a homeland was what they yearned to do. We need to assist the Palestinians in emulating that process, but, this time, with the agreement of the existing residents. Here is my idea in a very few words.
A possible solution.
Not that far from Gaza is a place called the Halaib Triangle. It has an area equivalent to Israel. Egypt claims it, Sudan claims it, and the actual residents would rather be their own country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halaib_Triangle
https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Hala%27ib_Triangle
The world should make a deal with the Hala'ibitians. There are only a few thousand of them.
Deal: Accept the Palestinians as equal citizens and you can have your own country. Plus we (the world) will pay $1 million to every Hala'ibitian, every man, woman, and child. We will persuade Sudan and Egypt to let this happen. We will invest billions of dollars to make this new country viable. Every citizen of Halaib-Palestine (Hala'ibitians and Palestinians) will have equal rights to revenue from the natural gas off the coast of Gaza as long as it lasts.
This vision is possible, and Israel would embrace it.
Sam Kahn:
https://samkahn.substack.com/p/curator-dcd
The most illuminating thing I've read recently is the transcript of a podcast conversation between William Dowell and Claire Berzinski (who's on Substack): https://whowhatwhy.org/podcast/voices-of-reason-debating-the-complexities-of-the-israel-hamas-conflict/
Not because it told me anything new about the situation itself, although I did appreciate Dowell bringing in Greek myths as a lens with which to view. But I noticed the reaction I had to each of their (reasonable, evidenced, explained) views, which helped me see where I'd been making assumptions or failing to make connections.
My overall impression was of a man too eager to analyse a post 10/7 world using a pre 10/7 context, seeing lots of truth from different angles, not least the magnitude of suffering, but missing a cohesive picture. And of a (geo)politically savvy woman whose model of the situation rings with explanatory power, but is so frustrated with the wrongness of the loud American youth that she reflexively disagrees with them and so doesn't acknowledge the fullness of the tragedy or apply the full measure of scrutiny to IDF bombings.
Oh no, I'm being centrist again.
I have family and friends who literally don’t watch the news ir care about world politics/events etc.
but my god they know and care about this.
I ask them why they care about this but not the Armenian Christian’s or the Uyghur (shit spelling) Muslims in China and I get no reply.
I would urge you to reframe your position that it's a loss of some kind for Israel to recognise the legitimacy of Hamas.
Consider the militant response by the IRA in northern Ireland, and in the formation of the Irish free state. I believe strongly that if you dig past Israeli propaganda and consider the apartheid life of the Palestinians, that you will recognise that Israel has long since spent it's rights for self defense and has been using the illusion of that as an excuse to cleanse a population they regard as animals.
Your defense of "might is right" mentality is wrong, and while I believe your intentions here are good, and you clearly have empathy for civilians, your stance is misguided by the propaganda of the loudest party in the conflict, and their heinous American benefactors
My point here is mainly that peace is never given a chance, and in fact is often devoutly rejected by the oppressors. For me that invalidates the argument that that oppressor is making.
I find your line of reasoning valid, given we're outsiders watching in on this conflict and feeling helpless, it's natural to want to dissect the claims and read the fine print of both sides claims.
But don't you feel a shred of shame that you're dissecting the term genocide, when international law decries even attempting genocide, and it's purpose is to prevent the completion of that crime, because it's completion means the ending of the people's, and it's intent is just as horrific. The Israelis are calling for genocide, that much has been evidenced time and time again as they murder white-flag bearing civilians, injured and limping from their leveled homes.
Overall I appreciate you considering this issue, and I'm a new subscriber coming here to check out your writing after seeing you featured. But if this is the depth of interrogation that intelligent people are taking to invading forces and the propaganda they spew, then it's a sorry state for the world.
While reading ICJ reports and interrogating definitions of crimes, you could have educated yourself on the history of the Jewish state, and the nearly 70 oppressive years that the Palestinians have been dehumanised and stepped on by Israeli forces. Their homes burned and demolished, their mothers and fathers killed. Half of Gaza was under 18 at the time of October 7th. Why was that?
Entrance and exit of Gaza has been heavily controlled for years, why was that?
Palestinians had an international airport not too long ago.. what happened to that?
It seems you asked questions to placate your mind a bit. Refusing to accept that such oppressive evil still exists. After all, we've created three UN, we stopped a big genocide before and said never again. And I agree, this reality is maddening. Truly mind breaking at times. I can't think for the sorrow that overwhelms me, and even more when the images from the unsung massacres reaches me too, in Sudan, Yemen, Congo, ...
But the true insanity is believing the oppressors, and justifying their narrative that the situation is very complicated, and couldn't be easily solved.
Did you know Hamas has offered many ceasefire agreements rejected by Israel? Have you really considered the influence of the US military providing high powered drones, armour, ammunition to the Israelis to defend against rocks thrown by Palestinians peasant children, only for those to be used to remorselessly murder them in the street?
Please consider what ilk you could be putting into the world when you join the chorus of hand-wringing onlookers claiming that the left is too radical, or they risk "supporting Hamas". Hamas are children, raised in misery and oppression. Don't forget that.
I hope you see my point, I'm writing from my phone, and free-flowing, so I hope it's coherent.
With respect, and no personal ill will.
J